# 17 If A Flat Earth, Why Does the Sun Go Down?

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The Sun never sets or rises, it stays the same distance over the Earth throughout it’s daily/annual journeys around. The appearance of rising and setting is all based on the law of perspective on plane surfaces. The Sun and Moon spotlights are perpetually hovering over and parallel to the surface of the Earth.

From our vantage point, due to the Law of Perspective, the day/night luminaries appear to rise up the Eastern horizon, curve peaking high overhead, and then sink below the Western horizon. They do not escape to the underside of the Flat-Earth as one might imagine, but rather rotate concentric clockwise circles around the circumference from tropic to tropic.  ~ Eric Dubay.

Sun Over horizon on Flat Earth explained

“Although the Sun is at all times above and parallel to the Earth’s surface, he appears to ascend the firmament from morning until noon, and to descend and sink below the horizon at evening. This arises from a simple and everywhere visible law of perspective. A flock of birds, when passing over a flat or marshy country, always appears to descend as it recedes; and if the flock is extensive, the first bird appears lower, or nearer to the horizon than the last. The farthest light in a row of lamps appears the lowest, although each one has the same altitude. Bearing these phenomena in mind, it will easily be seen how the Sun, although always parallel to the surface of the Earth, must appear to ascend when approaching, and descend after leaving the meridian or noon-day position.” -Dr. Samuel Rowbotham, “Earth Not a Globe, 2nd Edition” (85)

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Law of Perspective

“This law of Perspective meets us on every hand; and cannot be gainsaid.

If, in a straight line, we look at a frozen lake from a certain distance, we shall observe people who appear to be skating on their knees, but, if we approach sufficiently near, we shall see them performing graceful motions on their feet. Farther, if we look through a straight tunnel, we shall notice that the roof and the roadway below converge to a point of light at the end.

It is the same law which makes the hills sink, to the horizon, as the observer recedes, which explains how the ship’s hull disappears in the offing. I would also remark that when the sea is undisturbed by waves, the hull can be restored to sight by the aid of a good telescope long after it has disappeared from the naked eye, thus proving that the ship had not gone down behind the watery hill of a convex globe, but is still sailing on the level of a Plane sea.” -David Wardlaw Scott, “Terra Firma” (75)

“What can be more common than the observation that, standing at one end of a long row of lamp-posts, those nearest to us seem to be the highest; and those farthest away the lowest; whilst, as we move along towards the opposite end of the series, those which we approach seem to get higher, and those we are leaving behind appear to gradually become lower … It is an ordinary effect of perspective for an object to appear lower and lower as the observer goes farther and farther away from it.

Let any one try the experiment of looking at a light-house, church spire, monument, gas lamp, or other elevated object, from a distance of only a few yards, and notice the angle at which it is observed. On going farther away, the angle under which it is seen will diminish, and the object will appear lower and lower as the distance of the observer increases, until, at a certain point, the line of sight to the object, and the apparently uprising surface of the earth upon or over which it stands, will converge to the angle which constitutes the ‘vanishing point’ or the horizon; beyond which it will be invisible.” -Dr. Samuel Rowbotham, “Zetetic Astronomy, Earth Not a Globe!” (230-1)

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Why A Ship Appears to Go Down Over the Horizon

  “Another favorite “proof” of ball-Earthers is the appearance from an observer on shore of ships’ hulls being obfuscated by the water and disappearing from view when sailing away towards the horizon. Their claim is that ship’s hulls disappear before their mast-heads because the ship is beginning its declination around the convex curvature of the ball-Earth.

Once again, however, their hasty conclusion is drawn from a faulty premise, namely that only on a ball-Earth can this phenomenon occur. The fact of the matter is that the Law of Perspective on plane surfaces dictates and necessitates the exact same occurrence. For example a girl wearing a dress walking away towards the horizon will appear to sink into the Earth the farther away she walks. Her feet will disappear from view first and the distance between the ground and the bottom of her dress will gradually diminish until after about half a mile it seems like her dress is touching the ground as she walks on invisible legs.

The same happens with cars speeding away, the axles gradually get lower and the wheels vanish until it appears as if the car is gliding along its body. Such is the case on plane surfaces, the lowest parts of objects receding from a given point of observation necessarily disappear before the highest.”  ~ Eric Dubay, Flat Earth Conspiracy

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“Although the Sun is at all times above and parallel to the Earth’s surface, he appears to ascend the firmament from morning until noon, and to descend and sink below the horizon at evening. This arises from a simple and everywhere visible law of perspective. A flock of birds, when passing over a flat or marshy country, always appears to descend as it recedes; and if the flock is extensive, the first bird appears lower, or nearer to the horizon than the last.

The farthest light in a row of lamps appears the lowest, although each one has the same altitude. Bearing these phenomena in mind, it will easily be seen how the Sun, although always parallel to the surface of the Earth, must appear to ascend when approaching, and descend after leaving the meridian or noon-day position.” -Dr. Samuel Rowbotham, “Earth Not a Globe, 2nd Edition” (85)

Clouds at distance appear to be going down on the horizon.

Same with the Sun. Yet it is really just following a circle away.

602 thoughts on “# 17 If A Flat Earth, Why Does the Sun Go Down?

  1. Gaura Ellingsen December 10, 2016 at 8:05 pm Reply

    Dr. Zack – YouTube

    Like

  2. Barry Stephen December 10, 2016 at 11:00 pm Reply

    That doesn’t explain if.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Gaura Ellingsen December 11, 2016 at 12:14 am Reply
  4. Gaura Ellingsen December 11, 2016 at 12:29 am Reply

    One thing is general: There seems a certain human arrogance that affects us, especially nowadays with the event of so-called science, of us expecting to fully comprehend and explain the earth and the universe with the use of our limited faculties. The truth is that we are stuck on this planet looking at very distant dots of light through limited instruments and speculating what we are seeing and then teaching those speculation as “truth” in our academic programs. But the truth is that we can’t even understand our own bodies, what to speak of the infinitely greater Earth and the Universe. Those will always be beyond our conception, merely because we are too small and limited. Even if we built the most sophisticated instruments, they are still built by us who are limited and so not adequate, and we would still be using our limited faculties to read off those instruments. So we can aspire for an explanation to help us get a basic understanding, but we should not ever expect a full, exhaustive explanation. Even if we get such an explanation, we won’t be able to fully grasp it.

    Like

    • BurntToast December 13, 2016 at 11:46 pm Reply

      Gaura,

      Please feel free to speak for yourself. However, there are plenty of people who are capable of understanding things that you may find unknowable.

      There are also brilliant researchers and scientists who will always know more than most of us on a somewhat narrow topic like health, disease, virus, and the like, and who are dedicated to improving our collective lot in life, and society as a whole.

      A more direct and obvious example might be those who discovered and brought forth technologies where we can use small and powerful computers to communicate across the world without ever really knowing how these devices work. Be glad for such benefits of knowledge from others, to all our benefit.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Andrew D Lange June 2, 2017 at 4:13 am Reply

      Speak for yourself. I’m glad all of our great thinkers, dreamers, inventors and the like didn’t have your attitude. We may still think we all live on a big flat disk. Imagine that. The flat earthers never use facts or math to prove anything. They just explain their opinions. It’s so idiotic that it doesn’t anger me anymore. I find it quite humorous actually.

      Like

      • HappyBirthday June 3, 2017 at 2:16 am

        Andrew. I’m in your camp. Definitely not angry any more. Just amused that flat earth “proof” is merely opinion. No math. No science. Ridiculous!

        Like

  5. Barry Stephen December 11, 2016 at 7:53 am Reply

    I understand what he is trying to say.
    It really doesn’t explain it.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. HappyBirthday December 12, 2016 at 5:42 am Reply

    Hi to those who are interested in a visual depiction of the flat earth and the way the sun and moon operate. But you should know that this video shows good reasons why the flat earth model that I’ve read about on this blog is not possible. Maybe we can talk about it.

    Like

    • BurntToast December 19, 2016 at 5:15 am Reply

      I don’t know how how one can argue with the differences in actual observations vs. what FE model presents. Only one set of facts can be real, and we can all see reality with our own eyes.

      Liked by 1 person

      • asddsa3a January 16, 2017 at 2:56 am

        You are an idiot! You can type your illogical comment because people work with theoretical things you cannot see all the time. Can you see electrons flowing through your computer? You cannot, but this doesn’t stop your retarded comments to appear on your screen.

        Liked by 1 person

    • blagenlogin April 29, 2017 at 10:12 pm Reply

      That video didn’t portray the flat earth correctly.
      The model was too small and the sun and moon weren’t correctly scaled.
      Perspective was never accounted for, as there was no vanishing point.

      Like

      • sightdoeir May 23, 2017 at 8:40 pm

        the vanishing point is a point infinitely far away, the theorem basically says that if something gets infinitely far away, it will be infinitely small. And of all the flat earth models I’ve seen, the sun never gets infinitely far away

        Like

      • Mike May 25, 2017 at 11:21 pm

        sightdoeir – Rowbotham invents a new “perspective” in his Zetetic Astronomy. He basically confuses perspective and angular resolution so that different objects have different “vanishing points”. Conveniently this makes it look just like distant objects “set” below nearer objects.

        In other words, he makes the observations normally taken to support the Earth being a globe (the setting and rising of the Sun and Moon, objects going over the horizon etc.) and uses them to prove the Earth is flat!!!

        Like

  7. Barry Stephen December 13, 2016 at 3:20 pm Reply

    Maybe you should get an 8 year old to explain the question.
    Apparently you don’t understand it.

    Like

  8. Barry Stephen December 13, 2016 at 3:23 pm Reply

    I know.
    You didn’t understand my question it would seem.

    Like

  9. Gaura Ellingsen December 14, 2016 at 6:04 am Reply

    You are welcome to dream, thats fine, but I was talking from a non-intoxicated perspective of what our real position is, of that of utter insignificance within the Universe.

    Like

  10. Curious jack December 17, 2016 at 2:57 pm Reply

    1. That’s not how perspective and vanishing points work. You can easily demonstrate it with any kind of computer program that allows you to play with 3D assets and light sources. Any game maker will do. You’re just making shit up.

    2. If the world was flat, and I was close to the North Pole, say in yellow knife Canada or Siberia, would I be able to see the sun all day everyday, as it spins around the earth?

    3. Actually, if the earth was flat wouldn’t it be sunny all day everyday?

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Graynomad December 24, 2016 at 12:35 am Reply

    Biggest load of bollocks I’ve ever heard. On a flat plane the girl’s legs don’t “appear to sink into the Earth the farther away she walks”, her entire body just gets smaller proportionately.

    And the camera is placed below the plane of the table, so of course objects will start to be covered as they move away.

    Like

  12. Khaled Fouad January 28, 2017 at 10:23 am Reply

    First,if the earth is flat how do sunrise and sunset be at the same angle?
    Second,how does south pole be day and night for six months each?

    Liked by 1 person

  13. SlowBro February 5, 2017 at 5:15 pm Reply

    The video is an insult to our intelligence. That camera could not possibly be at level with the table top, it must be below. On a flat earth people stand on the surface, not below it, to watch the sun set. But don’t believe me, try this for yourself and see.

    Like

  14. Brolyn February 10, 2017 at 7:23 am Reply

    Youtube decreased my video view count by 90 percent. A video explaining an experiment on how to prove the shape of the earth please watch it’s only 2:00 long https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XUQTJRRu29E

    Like

  15. Gaura February 10, 2017 at 12:02 pm Reply

    check out Steve Torrence youtube channel that scientifically explains among other things sunrise and sunset on a flat earth:

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnSuHRwtmKLGWb05i8xZulg

    Like

  16. Fred February 17, 2017 at 6:40 pm Reply

    Radical! So now we are supposed to believe this “amature” that NASA hired a massive team to create millions and millions of fake images, or record millions and millions of fake videos. This sounds stupid, what is he goal of spending billions of dollars just to make people think the Earth is round. What do you accomplish??? Also don’t you think that at least someone will “break the ice” and attest that the Earth in reality is flat. But guess what, that hasn’t happened. Now i want to share an interesting fact:
    I love observing other planets in the solar system. And here is the complication that occurs when observing Jupiter for instance. Since, you always want proof that you can test, i will give it to you now. All you need is a cheap 200 dollar telescope. When i navigate to Jupiter and look at it through the telescope i see Jupiter and 3 other moons orbiting it. I saw this with my own eyes you cannot say that I am lying. But here’s the good part. When i look at jupiter 2 hours later, I SEE A DIFFERENT FACE. Jupiter’s day is 10 hrs, so it makes sense why i see a different face. Also the position of the moons changed. This is mindblowing evidence shows that Jupiter is a sphere. The same can be done to other planets. So if other planets are sphere’s how come Earth isn’t.

    Another fact:
    During a certain time of the year when observing mars you can see mars moving in one direction relative to Earth, but then it reverses and moves in a different direction. Whaaatttt? But this is easily explained with round Earth model. Earth rotates around the sun faster than mars, therefore, as Earth is on one side of the sun, its orbit is in opposite direction of mars. So mars moves in one direction, but then Earth’s starts “outrunning” mar’s orbit and mars seems to move back. But how does your model explain this???? I must know.
    There is more, but this is enough for now.

    Be wise not smart.

    Like

  17. Sebastian Lindner February 20, 2017 at 5:57 pm Reply

    There is evidence of an understanding of a spherical earth by Greek mathematicians as early 5 or 6 hundred B.C . By the age of Christianity a spherical earth was the standard understanding among civilized societies, but small groups of people (not including indigenous groups that did not have the mathematical capabilities of other societies) also claimed the earth was flat based on religion or what ever, just like today.

    This was before photos by NASA, advanced measurement tools, 2000 years of scientific thinking and innovation, or any real evidence really; just basic rational observations and logical mathematics. If some people back then didn’t understand the math and still believed in a flat earth, fine. There is no excuse other than total ignorance today.

    Like

  18. David March 3, 2017 at 4:00 pm Reply

    If the sun was moving away from us during the course of a day would it appear to get smaller as it approaches the horizon? If the earth is flat why the does sun remain the same size from dawn to noon to dusk?

    Like

    • HappyBirthday March 4, 2017 at 3:03 pm Reply

      Good observation. Along that same line of thinking, could a telescope follow the sun and measure its size from sun up to sundown? In flat earth theory, it should get smaller and smaller until you can’t see it anymore. But it’s still up there. A telescope should be able to see the sun along its entire circuit. Why isn’t there video of this common phenomenon?

      Like

  19. G Farmer March 6, 2017 at 3:36 am Reply

    But if the sun is moving away, why does it not gradually get smaller before “setting”?

    Like

  20. Philippe March 10, 2017 at 3:59 am Reply

    I came to the conclusion after months of research that it’s easier to understand the Earth mechanics with the flat model versus the globe model. How can I continue to believe that under my feet on the opposite side of the earth where I am standing there are buildings, tunnels, bridges, railroads, canals, lakes, rivers and oceans upside down held together by some magical energy. Sorry but I can’t buy it anymore.
    I will never forget these words by whom they were written.
    “The flat earth floating tremulously on the sea, the sun moving always over it, giving day when near enough, and night when too far off; the self luminous moon, with a semi-transparent invisible moon created to give her an eclipse now and then; the new law of perspective, by which the vanishing of the hull before the masts, usually thought to prove the earth globular, really proves it flat; all these and other things are well fitted to form exercises in learning the elements of astronomy.
    Augustus De Morgan, Professor of Mathematics in Cambridge University, President of the Royal Astronomical Society, F.R.A.S., &c., &c.–Athenaeum Journal for October 12, 1872

    Like

    • Tom March 10, 2017 at 4:34 am Reply

      Philippe,

      I’m glad to hear again of your comment “it’s easier to understand the Earth mechanics with the flat model versus the globe model.”

      What don’t see is where you share this understanding of any actual “mechanics” on how the FE is able to produce everyday observations. I’ve asked you earlier to clarify just some of these basic observations on a different thread (the-hubble-telescope-hoax), but you’ve failed to respond so far.

      I do hope this is not due to difficulties with these “mechanics” that you have such faith in, and we all look forward to learning from your example of what this is all about.

      Like

  21. Mike March 11, 2017 at 1:06 am Reply

    Phillipe – It is amazing that a Professor of Mathematics could give such a favourable opinion of flat Earth theory. In fact, too amazing. Rowbotham was selectively quoting De Morgan’s opinion of Zetetic Astronomy – a bit like the movie poster quoting, “…action packed from beginning to end…”, when the review reads, “If you want a movie that is action packed from beginning to end, this is not the movie for you.” Rowbotham could get away with it because De Morgan died in 1871. At the time you would have had to search out the “Athenaeum Journal” to check, but now, 10 minutes on Google found what he REALLY wrote:

    “The Zetetic Astronomy has come into my hands. When, in 1851, I went to see the Graet Exhibition, I heard an organ played by a performer who seemed very desirous to exhibit one particular stop. “What do you think of that stop?” I was asked. – “That depends on the name of it,” said I. – “Oh! what can the name have to do with the sound? ‘that which we call a rose,’ etc.” – “The name has everything to do with it: if it be a flute-stop, I think it very harsh; but if it be a railway-whistle-stop, I think it very sweet.” So as to this book: if it be childish, it is clever; if it is mannish, it is unusually foolish. The flat earth, floating tremulously on the sea; the sun moving always over the flat, giving day when near enough, and night when too far off; the self-luminous moon, with a semi-transparent invisible moon, created to give her an eclipse now and then; the new law of perspective, by which the vanishing of the hull before the masts, usually thought to prove the earth globular, really proves it flat; – all these and other things are well fitted to form exercises for a person who is learning the elements of astronomy. The manner in which the sun dips into the sea, especially in tropical climates, upsets the whole. Mungo Park, I think, gives an African hypothesis which explains phenomena better than this. The sun dips into the western ocean, and the people there cut him in pieces, fry him in a pan, and then join him together again, take him round the underway, and set him up in the east. I hope this book will be read, and that many will be puzzled by it: for there are many whose notions of astronomy deserve no better fate. There is no subject on which there is so little accurate conception as that of the motions of the heavenly bodies. The author, though confident in the extreme, neither impeaches the honesty of those whose opinions he assails, nor allots them any future inconvenience: in these points he is worthy to live on a globe, and to revolve in twenty-four hours.” A Budget of Paradoxes, Augustus de Morgan. Page 91-2 https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=QedToLwkhboC&q=The+flat+earth+floating+tremulously+#v=onepage&q=The%20flat%20earth%20floating%20tremulously%20&f=false

    So his real opinion was, “unusually foolish”, a worse hypothesis than that the sun is fried “in a pan” each evening and that Rowbotham offers no “future inconvenience” to the globe theory! So, Rowbotham was not only a charlatan, but a dishonest man too!

    Like

    • Tom March 11, 2017 at 4:44 am Reply

      Mike – if I fully understand your comment; Rowbotham is now a known fraud and charlatan, and his words are to be discounted and treated with skepticism. How interesting.

      Like

  22. Kevin March 11, 2017 at 1:41 pm Reply

    This could make some sense if the sun appeared to shrink into nothing as it set into the distance, but fortunately, the sun tends to appear to be the same size, if not larger, as it descends.

    Don’t brush this off as one small chink in your armor. The sun is the light bringer, and it even dissolves the silhouette of your mistaken view.

    Like

    • HappyBirthday March 11, 2017 at 5:54 pm Reply

      Kevin, from the many flat earth videos I’ve seen, and the many flat earth comments I’ve read, your exquisite point is one that has never been explained fully. The only thing I can think of is that the non shrinking sun is somehow an optical illusion of sorts. Similar to how our brains are tricked into seeing a gigantic harvest moon, when the size of the moon also doesn’t change. It’s just lower on the horizon. I don’t fully understand that but what other explanation is there?
      Does the flat earth sun move away from us and appear to shrink into nothingness, and thus produce night /darkness, all the while staying the same apparent size and dropping down over the horizon? Is this all just an optical illusion?
      Or is flat earth theory some kind of government program to see how gullible we are in order to drop a serious hoax into our laps and expect us to buy it, hook line and sinker?
      My opinion? The latter.
      Let’s not be fooled.

      Like

      • Mike March 11, 2017 at 6:56 pm

        A GOVERNMENT program?! Its just an internet phenomenon: some people are so limited in scientific understanding that they will believe, literally, ANYTHING they are told with a convincing sounding video!!!

        Like

      • Tom March 11, 2017 at 7:03 pm

        HB,

        There is no such thing as a flat earth “theory”, in the scientific sense of that word. One might be accurate to refer to it as a model or idea or conjecture, but theory is too much of a stretch.

        As far as brains being tricked, that can go in any direction. That is especially so when evidence and accurate information (avoiding the popular vernacular of a “fake news” approach) is always included with claims and beliefs.

        You’ve offered up serious questions, which deserve serious answers (any volunteers out there).

        A personal opinion belongs to one person, as is their right, but isn’t applicable to shared understanding among other people.

        Like

  23. Tomassino March 21, 2017 at 7:04 pm Reply

    Just a tought- if the earth is really flat, the sun never can go over the horizon as big as it is.?
    If we can zoom in (lets say 80x) the boats on the sea from the vanishing point to the field of wiew, we have to be able zoom the sun also, it must just be in the bigger and bigger distance by sundown, should be smaller and smaller and not going below the horizon in his actual size.
    We zoom it in- we have to withdraw it from the vanishing point same as the boat- I mean it should come from the point size to the circle, we zoom back- it should be back from the circle to the point size.
    Never seen this- anybody does?
    In every video I have seen just the sun goes down in half-circle size, in case somebody zoomed in- it never grooved back to even slightly more complete circle, stays in half-circle, just in bigger dimensions via the zoom, never the shape
    Any thougths?

    Thx, and sorry for my english, I hope anybody understood me.

    Like

    • Tom March 21, 2017 at 11:09 pm Reply

      Tomassino,

      I have some evidence to share on the last point you mention.

      Here is a set of photos from a sunset in Costa Rica in Jan 31, 2017, from 18:49:56 until 18:55:24. The first portion is wide-angle (normal) with the sun above the horizon. When the sun meets the horizon, I zoom in for close and accurate viewing of the sum image.

      http://s1356.photobucket.com/user/PhotoCatch77/slideshow/

      During the entire 5-6 minutes, the sun image goes from a full circle above the horizon, through partial disk images (growing ever smaller), until there is only the topmost portion of the sun visible.

      The sum image is obviously fully visible, but becomes more and more blocked by the horizon. All the while, the image visible to us retains its relative shape as the topmost portion of a circle.

      There is no is disappearing into the distance, just disappearing below the horizon.

      It was a truly beautiful sight to behold, available to all of us at one time or another, day-in and day-out, across all our life-times.

      Like

      • HappyBirthday March 22, 2017 at 1:51 am

        Tom, just to be sure I understand. It looks like the photos you posted confirm that the earth can’t be flat because the sun does not shrink into a dot (as one might expect if the earth was flat and the sun always overhead) but instead dips below the horizon remaining the same apparent size.

        Like

      • Tom March 22, 2017 at 2:52 am

        HB,

        That is what I saw and what the photos show. The evidence seems very clear, and I know of no other explanation of this visual evidence.

        Like

      • HappyBirthday March 22, 2017 at 3:13 am

        Thanks, Tom. It’s what I’m seeing as well.
        This seems to be the smoking gun.
        Flat earthers can’t credibly show how their sun works when what we see with our own eyes tells a much different story.
        I’d be happy to see any argument that supplants this

        Like

  24. Tomassino March 22, 2017 at 4:33 am Reply

    Thx, this seems to me as in this case the evidence works for the globe.

    Another one will be like this- in summer solstice day- we have to observe the sun on the capricorn or cancer- circle point (which one is with the sun above in the north hemisphere) and measure if it goes:in straight line above our head from set till down.
    If the earth is a plane and the system is with the circling sun- it must go from slight left in morning to overhead in the noon and to the slight right in evening- because it rotates with the centre above the pole?
    Same situation 1/2 year later on the other circle, and there must be difference, because in this model the sun is on the path with larger diameter, it should start more in the left and finish more in the right in the evening than in the summer in the north.

    This and my above question are for me sign that the system is maybe different then presented by the Eric-Dubay side.

    But there stays alot of topic, where the flat model works better then the round one….:-)
    Maybe it is flat, but the sun and moon works different?
    :-):-):-)

    Like

    • Mike March 26, 2017 at 12:41 am Reply

      Tomassino, can you give one topic where the flat model works at all?

      Like

      • Tomassino March 26, 2017 at 8:07 am

        ok, I should have written it works for me, because I am looking for truth….
        Because to do this- we have to define what is the truth as the term, then we can find out how does it look like.

        I am not taking place in the F.E. vs G.E. match, is not a game in my opinion, because this ones there are playing do not agree with the rules- the rules are not given…

        So for me- 46 years of observation the world arround me and not questioning the simpliest questions was the first thing, I realized it was the wrong way to live.
        Since my first school day, I simply accepted, nothing more.
        As the years flow, there was no time to think about, but last year it happened.

        1) The ammount of the curvature.
        Who and when and how did measure it?
        Who and when and how hoverified it?
        (Most important value for us, to how we should build things, how we can live on)

        2) The G
        Who and when and how did measure it?
        Who and when and how hoverified it?
        (Most importand value for the solar system- how it works and how it looks like)

        3) Why in some cases, we have to follow the basics of Newtons laws, and In same other cases we have to ignore them to let things we see work.
        (Gyro, Coriollis, Focaults experiments, space travel vs. earth rotations…)

        4) Why there aro no compasses, they work with the south pole?
        Must be easy just put a “south oriented” pointer inside, but this is never the case, the interaction is allways between the north pole and the pointer, NEVER between the south pole and the pointer. (we go south we never folllow the south, we just go away from north, on the bipolar globe there should work allso the other system as well?)

        5) Why is physics longer not physics, today we are just solving mathematical equations then making real experiments, we are just caged in same kind of mathematical model, we see things works simple, but we are told they are working in a differnt, very complicated way.

        Just a few samples- for all this and lot of other simple reasons the truth for me loooks like the G.E. does not work better then the flat one.

        And to the truth as written in above- it is just the interaction between a mind (senses) and the outer world.
        It can be different from anybody other truth- the world we expierience is the same, but our minds are different- therefore there cannot be a commonly valid truth, it is allways the faith (or belief), no rules for the game.

        We can debate, we can disagree, but nobody wins the match- the final proof stays hidden (for now).

        Sorry for my english, but hopefully you can cath my minds.

        T.

        Like

      • Paulo March 28, 2017 at 3:01 pm

        How can you see an island (e.g.) 50 miles and over away from you? How does the curvature of the Earth work in this situation?…

        Like

      • Mike March 28, 2017 at 7:00 pm

        Tomassino, don’t worry about your English – it beats anything I could do in any other language by a long way!

        Let me try to answer your points.

        1) The amount of curvature is hard to measure directly, due to the fact that light does not travel in straight lines. The effect of refraction depends upon atmospheric conditions, but always tends to bend light down, whic h reduces the visible curvature. This is a long observed phenomenon, due to the decreasing density of air as you move away from the Earth’s surface (the reason why you need oxygen to climb mount Everest and aeroplanes are pressurised).

        As a result, the curvature has been calculated from size of the Earth determined by other means. More recently, satellites and, in particular, GPS has meant that the variations from a perfect sphere have been better determined by geodetics. Any such variations would make GPS readings (particularly elevation above sea level) inaccurate unless they are taken into account. For example: “I’m an engineer and I worked on the London Olympics. Although no individual structure had to take into account the curvature of the earth, the site did. There were two grid systems used, a parkwide grid (accounting for curvature) and each structure had a local grid which did not.” (https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/29jrhq/how_if_at_all_do_architects_of_large_buildings/)

        2) The value of “G” (the gravitational constant) is difficult to determine because gravity is a small effect unless the mass of one of the bodies is very large (such as the Earth, the Moon or the Sun). It has been determined since Cavendish at the end of the 18th century.

        For movement within the solar system, “G” is not really important. What is needed is G x m, the product of G and the mass of an astronomical body. This is calculated from observations.

        3) “Why in some cases, we have to follow the basics of Newtons laws, and In same other cases we have to ignore them to let things we see work.
        (Gyro, Coriollis, Focaults experiments, space travel vs. earth rotations…)”

        I don’t understand this: why are any of Newton’s laws ignored in any of these cases?

        4) A compass aligns itself with the Earth’s magnetic FIELD. The “N” end (the “north seeking pole”) points towards the north pole ALONG THE FIELD LINE. The other end (the “south seeking pole”) just points the other way!

        5) Your criticism of modern physics seems to ignore all the evidence! No experiments, just maths? What about CERN? What about the Hubble space telescope?

        Science (when it works properly) uses theory to make predictions, which are tested by observation and experiment: the two cannot be separated.

        When you then test the globe Earth model, based upon gravity and Newton’s laws of motion, many predictions can be made and tested. I’ll just give a few:
        – the return of comets;
        – the timings of lunar and solar eclipses;
        – the existence of Neptune (before its observation);
        – the motions of the tides;
        – navigation using astronomical readings based on the Earth as a globe;
        – the rotation of weather systems in opposite directions in the northern and southern hemispheres.

        In contrast, the flat earth theory can make NO testable predictions!

        I’m afraid, Tomassino, I don’t think that the Earth can be flat for you and a globe for me! ALL the evidence points to it being a globe.

        Like

      • Tomassino April 2, 2017 at 3:19 pm

        Hi Mike.

        To G- easy as the circle- somebody determined it, evrybody accepted it, nobody till today verified it, but all the scientist using it for creating newer and newer hypothesies and theories, nothing more…:-)
        For me- value wihout any scientifical significance, coul be just made up, because nobody will ever be able to verify the earth mass, not even the earth volume…

        And Cern? Just vasting money that could be more wisely to try to proof that there was something like Big bang…
        Todays theory for me- all the space must be like an atom or something, there must be matter against anti- (or dark as you wish) matter (protones and electrones), so there could be any energy flow- this means for me- just Jing-Jang theory in very complicated way…:-)

        The basic questin will be never answered- what (if) expoded and evolved in everything.
        Is for me the same thing as the Gods words- just alittle more complicated.
        We trust or we dont…

        To Hubble- really big bunch of nice coloured images, but without any explanation with them- just a few¨aquarells (water paintings) from some abstract painter (Salvator Dali or some like that), nothing more for me.

        To the Magnetic field- just wanted to say that there is not necessary proof we have the dipol- field on the ball earth, could ba alittle different- with north pole in the middle of the upper plane and the southpole in the middle of the down plane.(as if you squeeze the ball to make the cd or LP(if you remember them))
        If we cannot find out the south pole- maybe it is just inacessible (on the downside).

        This could be why there are a few event southpoles on 90 degrees south latt.
        Maybe there exist 100, maybe even 150 degrees south, maybe more?
        And just in case you go over the edge to the down side- you can find the southpole, exactly opposite (below the north on the upper side…:-)

        About weather patterns I dont know , I am not an metheorologist or something like that, the predictions are not given on the F.E., because there is only the globe model accepted, and all the scientist are working in the globe model.

        I personally think- If there will by a second part of science with same amount of money and people as for the G.E., the results will then come quickly as for the mainstream direction.
        But F.E. is the restricted part of science, even there are no touchable proofs that the Earth is a globe (for me at last, I am affraid thgat I will never go to the space to finally take the real picture as anybody other will), so the new theories and equations will emerge more slowlier then the G.E. ones.

        The real physic died with Tesla for me, since his dead- we are just following the money, not researching.

        And the last thing- Is the Antarctis.
        On one side we are able to kill milions and milions of humans to get anything from Earth for Profit, we wage wars against each other to get something that the others have and what we need so urgent…

        And on the other side- we all together with all our “enemies” we are fighting keep the treaty that we would not extract the same things from the Antarctis?

        This smells for me most- the treaty is just a cover story¨, because everything that happens on the Earth is due the money, due the Profit, and no treaty ever in the history changed it…:-)
        Maybe there is something fishy with it, the most powerfull ones know it and keep all the sheeple out from it, and let them kill each other to stay away and be busy (or entertained)…:-)
        But this is another topic, and of course- as many will say- Just a Cospiration Theory.
        I aggree with them- only without the last one word…!:-)

        Have a nice day and let your mind stay open.

        Like

      • Tom April 2, 2017 at 5:02 pm

        Mike – forgive my interrupting this line of Q/A; I just think there are some key questions that if answered can help clarify this matter a bit more.

        Tomassino,

        Is there is any evidence or explanation for any of these questions (as a start)?

        * how can the sun and moon can hover at a fixed distance above FE?
        * how can they shift their movements into larger and smaller diameter paths?
        * what causes them to move at all?
        * what causes them to reverse course between large and smaller paths continually?
        * why is Australia shown wider that it is in reality as a southern latitude continent?
        * why are star patterns different in northern and southern latitudes (and equator)?
        * how can we not see the sun because it is too far away, yet every day still see its light for 30+ minutes (before and after the sun itself is visible)?
        * how is the continually sun visible at the poles for days at a time during the solstice?
        * based on the purported size of the fe sun, how does it provide enough energy to heat the surface of the earth daily as we all experience?
        * what is it that causes there to be light from the fe sun (how does the sun work)?
        * what limits the distance light from the sun travels as it it always above the fe and in our line of sight?
        * what is actually happening during a lunar eclipse, that its face gets dark?
        * why can’t the fe model predict eclipse timing like actually happens in a real world, that we all can validate by watching on every occurrence?
        * why can’t the fe model predict the path of an eclipse as actually happens that we can see ourselves when in the path?

        Respectfully, direct answers (even “I don’t know” is acceptable!) are preferred over generalized comments; so we can try and move forward.

        Thanks in advance.

        Like

      • Tomassino April 2, 2017 at 9:36 pm

        To TOM…

        First of all, I was never saying that i believe in F.E.(it looks to me as you just wannt to win the fight- I do not):-)

        I am just being suspicious to GE model

        As I mentioned- you are asking for answers to questions that should proof the F.E. theory as popularised by Eric Dubbay few years ago.
        You have to aggree that the fight between GE and FE is like a boxer fight between a king-size boxer and a fly-class one.
        About 500 years of dogmatizing GE model vs. lets say 10 years of silently growing amateur- discuss over a few topics the GE mainstream cannot satisfactory explain even with all the pushback of the science propaganda.
        Just evidence based on models and equationes, nothinhg more.When asking for simply proofs- silence.

        When somebody ask where is the verification of the Cavendish or Foucaults original experiments that have proven the basic principles of GE heliocentric model- silence appears, even if this to me (not only) are the most important experiments which verification and replication can proove once for all times that the GE works, what will be fine.

        Foucault did his gyro- based proof of rotating earth due the basics properties of gyroscope- but today it miracly does not work anymore.
        Has the world stop spining meanwhile? Probably not I assume.
        Than he made the one with pendulum (which uses the same principles other way) and this works till today?

        What is the difference between the two experiments? Ask yourself why the one with gyro worked in the past, and the string one works till today. It is not as difficult to find the answer.

        Same with establishing the G by Cavendish.

        There is alot of mathematically based proofs to his value, but the replication of his experiment is missing till today (200 years), but we have all assume that his results were correct (nearly perfect)..

        And you are asking me for scientifical proof of the freshly popularized theory, to proof how it works?
        Come on…

        I dont know, I just will be lucky when the GE science will make experiments again that will verified itself.
        That is what science in my opinion have to do, not finding newer and newer theories that suppotrts the once given and untouchable model (or should i say dogma).

        It is the feeling to being decieved, that I am into.
        If governments lie, why the science should not?
        I cannot answer your questions, I am not a FE- fighter, I started to questioned the GE for me, as there are too many lies around me.

        It is the money we should allways follow.
        And it is going all to the king-size team.

        So you have to work for yourself, I cannot give you what you want.

        Best regards.

        T.

        Like

      • Tom April 2, 2017 at 11:58 pm

        Tomassino,

        I didn’t ask for proof, which when provided should be a very extensive and complete achievement; I was merely asking for evidence or explanations of several commonly pictured and claimed FE mechanics. I also added some predictive and consequences questions to understand if some limits for FE exist.

        These items are mostly or all related to observational phenomena, not experimental results. Every model of earth should be concerned about such basic understanding, knowing that the public are watching the skies, within all populations (and have been for awhile).

        As I reviewed your response, my best categorization of would be that of an “I don’t know” quality. That is always an acceptable answer, and doesn’t diminish anyone that simply hasn’t seen or found the answer. You didn’t directly say that, but it seems you decided to talk around the listed items, and not provide a clear response. To each their own.

        Does not knowing the details of those items make you feel more or less deceived? What would you like to know about them, or are they not important to you?

        Regards,
        Tom

        Like

  25. Brolyn March 28, 2017 at 8:06 pm Reply

    Boy all we need is someone to do this experiment and rub it in or world leaders faces. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U03hEsoFnvU If someone faced east with a compass standing 10 miles away from the North Pole, if he flew in a airplane in a perfectly straight line from that point with out turning right or left, he would slowly start facing south east./ same on a flat earth. BUT at the equator of a globe, you could face east or west and travel in a straight line all the way around the globe and stay facing east or west the entire time. BUT in the Southern Hemisphere/ Australia. Someone can prove to us if Australia is upside down or not. Budy needs an airplane and a compass, he simply needs to face directly east – keep in mind east and west are 90 degrees away from the North Pole. Then this guy needs to go on auto pilot and travel in a straight line with out turning right or left and he should slowly TRAVEL NORTH EAST. On a flat earth facing east or west and traveling in a straight line with out turning right or left will always force you to end up slowly facing south east.- or south west. I need someone smart to explain this better than I can. If air planes need to turn to the right to stay facing directly east /90 degrees away from the North Pole when flying around the world in the Southern Hemisphere that would prove the globe. If the pilot has to turn to the left to stay facing east in the Southern Hemisphere that proves the earth is flat. If you thought you had to turn the same direction to stay facing east in the Southern Hemisphere as you do in the northern hemisphere, that means your brain is trying to tell you the earth is no damn ball

    Like

  26. Tom March 28, 2017 at 10:05 pm Reply

    Brolyn,

    To make common sense of directions, we need to use common definitions that we can agree on. If something of sufficient mass is simply dropped, if will move in a downward direction, or down. Up is simply the opposite of down by 180 degrees.

    By these definitions, Australia is not upside-down.

    Like

  27. Brolyn March 29, 2017 at 6:30 am Reply

    please give me everything you got I need to learn how to explain this better. Sorry I should of said Australia is upside down from the North Pole ? Does that sound better ?

    Like

    • Tom March 29, 2017 at 11:56 am Reply

      Brolyn,

      In Australia, up and down are the same as all other places on earth, following these definitions above. For me, your revised comment doesn’t makes sense by using “up” and “down” in any manner. 😦

      Like

  28. Brolyn March 29, 2017 at 12:25 pm Reply

    But you are wrong it is not the same. In Canada you can see the North Star wen you face “up” in Australia/ the Southern Hemisphere. The North Star should not even be in the sky what so ever. What should I say? Help me out. People’s heads in Australia are facing 180 degrees away from the North Pole?

    Like

    • Tom March 29, 2017 at 10:08 pm Reply

      Brolyn,

      I’ll try to offer what I can. Up and down are relative directions, like left and right. It all depends on where you are, and how you are positioned. What about this: people in Wisconsin, Indiana, Michigan, and the upper peninsula of Michigan are all looking at Lake Michigan. Are they looking north, south, east or west (generally)?

      The accurate answer is more than likely all of the above. Similarly, when a person looks up, they see what is above them, which in terms of astronomical objects may not be the same.

      Hope this helps.

      Like

  29. HappyBirthday April 2, 2017 at 8:48 pm Reply

    Tom,
    I am also interested in the answers to the questions you posed to Tomassino regarding the fe. Do you think the moderator of this site reads this and can add further information? (That’s a rhetorical question, but for us seekers, it should be worth looking into.)

    Like

  30. Tomassino April 3, 2017 at 2:30 pm Reply

    Thx Tom.

    I wrote I dont know, I got here pictures to my very first question (regarding the sun below the horizon), which I did not found when needed- they work for me- this must be some other way if FE, or is GE.

    All the proofs regarding to GE I can get will be I think over my brain- capabilities.

    I tried to ask my fellow physicist, but his answers were just full of maths, full of other things they cannot be proven as easy so I can catch it, and are just theories or presumptions, or something that stays forever just thories or how to say.
    It all ended in quantum physics, and there it is over for me.

    If I accept f.e. that gravity bends the light so much, that we are able to see on earth below the horizon, it raises in my head lot of other questions (f.e. if it bends light, how can we see the light from the stars travelling bunch of miles trough the space full of masses milion times bigger then Earth, which are constantly changing their positions? or if it bends light- it has to bend also the radio waves (Hubble pictures), or bends it only the light, which is only a tiny part of the whole spectrum of elmag? Why? And so on and so on.)
    And there will be I am affraid answers to this questions too complicated to my simply thinking.
    And to be honest- I have not so much time to try to understand them, but just accept them I cannot too.

    This all started with just a feeling that this world become somehow darker and darker, that people behave in some stranger and stranger manner, I cannot explain exactly what is it all about, the best description- Iˇm really loosing my faith to this world…

    And with all the conspiracies that evolved right from conspiracy theories during lets say last 100 years, this maybe is for me the other one, And if I am lucky, maybe in the future it will evolve too.

    For me- if you can somehow easy explain to me the gyro- topic and if you can somehow measure the G so I can be sure that it is not just a estimated and accepted value, you will proof to me that FE is dead and Iľl be happy that I did not belief all the years from my basic school in a wrong thing…

    This is nothing personal to you or other people here, I spended here few Interresting moments, got what I initially came for, but last saturday started my motorbiking saisson, and all this things will came to my mind again when it is over next autumn, or during my holiday, looking to the stars by the fire at night…

    THX again.

    T.

    Like

  31. Bill April 5, 2017 at 1:54 am Reply

    Ok, interesting concept. The earth is flat? The sun never rises or set, it circles above at the same distance. I’m at an altitude of around 450 ft above sea level, and westward from me there isn’t any terrain for over 1,000 miles that rise more than a couple hundred feet in elevation above my location. I’ve watched some of the flat earth theory videos on you tube and several have show how if you watch a ship sail over the “curvature” you can simply bring it back into view with a scope. Watching this it clicked, “well if they can do that with a telescope, and the earth is indeed flat, then i should be able to watch the sun set then pull it back into view with my expensive telescope…..guess what? I couldn’t see it after it set. I started thinking “well maybe I should try this from a cliff over looking the ocean”. GUESS WHAT?

    Like

    • HappyBirthday April 5, 2017 at 4:03 am Reply

      Bill. That’s exactly what I was thinking. But not owning a telescope, I can’t do the experiment. It should be so easy to prove one way or another.
      I can’t find any videos that show this experiment. Why not?

      Like

  32. conservativemeats April 13, 2017 at 9:56 am Reply

    Hilarious stuff there. The sun always “rises” in the East and “sets” in the West. In the summer, it travels directly OVERHEAD. In the winter, it passes at a different angle, further to the south. That alone should prove a spinning,spherical Earth, tilted on it’s axis. On a flat earth, the sun would NEVER disappear. Our sun disappears over the horizon just as big as it was when it “passed” overhead. It doesn’t fade from view. On a flat earth, we would NOT have seasons. Time zones ONLY work on a spherical earth. Where is a photo of the edge of the flat earth? I don’t want to hear about giant icebergs that we can’t fly over blocking us from taking photos. We have planes (U2 spyplane) that can fly in excess of 70,000 feet and we can send balloons even higher (if you don’t believe in satellites). Where are these iceberg photos that are twice as high as Mt. Everest? (World record iceberg – about 550 FEET tall) Hurricanes would be straight winds on a flat Earth, not rotating storms (See Coriolis Effect). Why can’t I see the Rocky Mountains from “flat as a pancake” Kansas? I could go on all through one full rotation of the spherical Earth, but, if you think the Earth is flat, in 2017, facts aren’t going to change your opinion!

    Like

    • HappyBirthday April 13, 2017 at 4:12 pm Reply

      conservativemeats, The more I read about the flat earth, the more I’m convinced of its flaws. You raise some of the most common questions and problems. What I very much desire to see now are full explanations for all of them.
      However, I’ve been on this site just long enough now to understand the real challenges to anyone in the flat earth community for doing that
      You know that there is a first ever flat earth conference coming up this year. I would imagine that there will be some folks in attendance who will want to seriously challenge their assumptions. I wonder how the organizers will handle that.
      I would like to go just to see how all that goes down.

      Like

  33. Brian johnston May 1, 2017 at 1:08 am Reply

    He talks about the sun travelling parallel to the earth
    Vanishing point?
    Lets look at a pair of railway tracks
    They converge in the distance
    Now put the tracks on their side
    Still converging
    Now put one of the tracks in the air. About as high as the sun
    Still converging?
    The top track goes nowhere near the horizon

    Just trying to help

    For the record
    I can’t believe we are travelling as fast as we are told

    Like

    • 94michaelc June 13, 2017 at 4:19 pm Reply

      This last one is the best bit of FE justification to my mind. It is impossible to “believe” that GE is speeding at 67,000 miles an hour. Yet in order to explain what we perceive as gravity we are asked to accept that FE is accelerating at 10metres/sec/sec all the time.

      Now if this is true, then FE reaches a speed of 67,000 mph after 3.5 years, from a standing start. Or put another way FE increases its speed by 67,000 mph every 3.5 years. So in my lifetime FE has increased its speed by 1.3 million miles an hour.

      So how come, FE fans, that isn’t too fast?

      Like

  34. Paul Middleton May 4, 2017 at 2:04 pm Reply

    There is no such thing as “The Law Of Perspective” – It’s not a law.
    This is what it means –
    1. The art of representing three-dimensional objects on a two-dimensional surface so as to give the right impression of their height, width, depth, and position in relation to each other.
    2. A particular attitude towards or way of regarding something; a point of view.

    Liked by 1 person

  35. Kevin May 16, 2017 at 1:31 pm Reply

    But notice how the coin gets smaller as you move it away from the camera on that flat surface. If the earth was flat, wouldn’t the sun get smaller as it moved away? But it doesn’t… it’s always the same size.

    Like

    • Graynomad May 17, 2017 at 8:29 pm Reply

      In round figures the sun is 93,000,000 miles away at dawn and 93,010,000 miles away at sunset as you move to the other side of the globe. The sun DOES get smaller, but the difference in distance, and therefore visual size, is so little you can’t see it.

      Like

      • HappyBirthday May 17, 2017 at 8:35 pm

        I am equally concerned about FE’ers saying that the sun just shrinks into a dot and then disappears. No, it does not. They can see that for themselves every night at sunset. It goes over the horizon, disappearing, bottom first. The size change, as you rightly pointed out, is imperceptible.

        And, besides, if it just keeps getting smaller the further away it gets, you definitely should be able to “bring it back” using a good telescope, making the sun visible. After all, it’s not THAT far away in their world, right? What’s a few thousand miles to a telescope that can see distant planets that are much, much further away?

        Like

  36. Graynomad May 17, 2017 at 8:42 pm Reply

    Yeah, actually I just reviewed what I said and it’s slightly incorrect, at sunset and sunrise you are the same distance from the sun, it’s at noon you are 10,000 miles closer. Not that it affects this argument 🙂

    Like

    • HappyBirthday May 17, 2017 at 8:46 pm Reply

      Ok, thanks. You’re right. It does not affect the argument one bit. Or one mile!
      don’t you ever wonder what is behind the whole Flat Earth thing? Except anti-science, and anti-intellectualism? Perhaps?

      Like

  37. Brian johnston May 18, 2017 at 6:29 am Reply

    On a slightly different subject

    Earth spins at 24,000 mph
    Earth travels around sun at 67,000 mph
    Sun travels through galaxy at 430,000 mph
    Galaxy moving at 100,000 mph

    I just can’t believe all this

    If the sun is moving then we follow the sun in a helical orbit

    If we were moving at these speeds wouldn’t earth be punching through our atmosphere

    Would our atmosphere be hanging onto us like the tail of a comet

    Would our atmosphere get left behind

    I do not know whether earth is flat or not

    I do know we are lied to

    The flakey warmist alarmist James Lovelock says in his book The Vanishing Face of Gaia page 1
    The joy of seeing our planet from above. To see how spherical it is
    Then he says
    We have to take for granted earth is round. Even though when on the ground our eyes say it is flat

    Like

    • Mike May 18, 2017 at 6:58 pm Reply

      Brian, you do know that, “I just can’t believe all this” falls a little short of proof!

      The human body can only detect acceleration. The acceleration due to the Earth’s gravity is so much greater than any of the accelerations required for any of the other movements you list that they cannot be directly observed. Careful astronomical measurements, carried out over many centuries, allow us to determine them.

      Like

  38. Tracy Wilson May 18, 2017 at 12:34 pm Reply

    I too was like “bwahahaha no freakin way it’s flat”… then I decided to investigate myself and everything else started to make sense. We are on a flat plane. We do have a limited veil of sight which doesn’t allow us to see past a certain point. My problem with society is everyone wants to play the blame game and go off on how the idea is soooooo stupid without doing ANY research themselves. Has no one really questioned where we got this second hand knowledge? We just accept 1+1=2 blindly… cuz Christopher Columbus discovered America right? Thomas Edison gave us electricity in our homes “let’s praise him”…to later find out that Tesla created FREE electricity that 1 tower could supply 3 miles.. (he even planted light bulbs in the ground!!!yes ground and they lit up) but wonderful JP Morgan tore his tower down and went with Edisons model because who makes money off of free? Albert Einstein was asked “what it was like to be the smartest man on the planet?” …he said ” I don’t know…you should ask Tesla” Tesla also was a flat earther. Fyi.. we are on a flat plane…. but in a vortex of sorts… the better way to disprove the sun…(instead of it going down..which is due to the veil of our eyes…we can only see so far…have you ever done those drawing comparison questions? The one where “which one is bigger than the other” ..but then they end up being the same? It’s our preception) anywho..the better example…if the sun is soooooo many x million light years away….we would see straight rays of light that would expand and stretch further out because of such a distance… how is it that the sun cast’s down a perfect 90 degree angel triangle of rays if it wasn’t closer? The answer to the question about the sun disappearing and going beneath flat earth…geesh… sacred geometry. Please please spirit science on YouTube is good for beginners… but all the planets + sun + moon ALL make different sacred geometry patterns within the vortex… did you know planets actually reverse directions?!?! And they do it in perfect sacred geometry. Anywho…there is ALOT more evidence….but… sigh… the reason we are hidden from the truth (on purpose) of our origins… is because each of us have to take the individual journey of realization. At least read the emerald tablets… sigh.. I cannot force you…but if you want to seek the truth…it is out there. But it does take more than just watching 1-2 videos. most of us will only give lame little details because of eyes always watching…but I really don’t fucking care anymore .. maybe people should..I dunno… look to see how many videos and sites there are about this? No? Hundreds of thousands..if not more…but I guess that many people are just the crazy ones…lol…

    Like

    • Mike May 18, 2017 at 7:13 pm Reply

      Tracy, you say, “then I decided to investigate myself”. It appears that your “investigation” consisted only of watching flat earth YouTube videos! So many of your assertions are false that it is hard to know where to begin!

      Let’s start with Tesla:
      – He was NOT a flat earther!
      – He tried to find a way of DISTRIBUTING energy free of charge (not GENERATE it!), which could work over short distances, but which was based on many false assumptions, so never worked as he hoped.
      – The Einstein quote is as phoney as the rest of flat earth science.

      The Sun is only 93 million miles away, not “soooooo many x million light years away”.

      Doesn’t “sacred geometry” make you at all suspicious? Why doesn’t the geometry you work out on a piece of paper work?

      The reversal of the movement of the planets (“retrograde motion” – the reason why they are called planets, “wanderers” in Greek) is due to their orbits around the Sun interacting with our orbit. Simple! No “spirit science”, “sacred geometry” or “emerald tablets” required!

      Like

    • HappyBirthday May 18, 2017 at 7:25 pm Reply

      Tracy, so basically you’ve decided to go with YouTube videos for your research? And not generations of hard and proven science?
      OK then you are in the camp of anti – intelligence and anti science. Knowing the facts isn’t about sacred or spirit anything.

      Like

  39. Brian Johnston May 18, 2017 at 11:42 pm Reply

    Note Tesla invented AC electricity. Edison invented DC

    Tesla won. Our homes are supplied by 50/60Hz AC

    Edison hooked elephants up to (DC) electricity to see what would happen
    They died an excruciating death

    Like

    • setecordas May 19, 2017 at 12:16 am Reply

      Tesla did not invent AC, nor did Edison invent DC. Tesla improved on extant AC generators. We use both AC and DC.

      Like

    • Mike May 19, 2017 at 12:35 am Reply

      Brian Johnston – and? Tesla was undoubtedly a great scientist and engineer in his day. He was not what many on the internet claim him to be!

      Like

  40. The Dude May 24, 2017 at 10:38 am Reply

    The idea of the Sun not going down is moronic if flat earth believers where right the sun would curve as it faded on the horizon it would curve to the left if one was facing west as the sun went down it would not go in straight line. If flat earth believers were correct the magnetic poles would not exist and the diameter of the south pole would be over 80 thousand kilometers.

    Like

  41. Brian Johnston May 27, 2017 at 9:52 am Reply

    The Dude. Did you mean the ‘circumference’ of the south pole ie around the edge of the alleged flat earth or diameter as in the distance across the alleged flat earth

    Like

  42. Jason June 4, 2017 at 3:21 am Reply

    The difference between the sun and the flock of geese or the ship is that with the Sun, we do not see it diminish in size as it nears the horizon. Instead, the Sun actually is seen to be swallowed slowly by the Horizon (thus the Half Sun we can witness.)

    The Flock of Geese, the Ship nearing the horizon, and the street lamps all diminish in size until they are simply unseeable.

    The sun according to the flat earth model is 12 thousand miles above the earth, the earth, even in the flat earth model is just over 24 thousand miles around, (or in FE scale, Diameter) So no matter what, when the sun is in the zenith over what would be considered the equator, the sun is 12 thousand miles up and 12 thousand miles away horizontally.. this creates a 45 degree angle, in which the sun would never appear to approach the horizon from the view point of the north pole… This would present a steadily decreasing angle as one gets further away, but never to the point of the sun approaching the horizon, just a diminishing in the size.

    Mathematically and geometrically speaking, the FE explanation of the sun does not work… And the FE explanation attempts to use the very same mathematics that I just used to defend it… Nice try, but doesn’t work…

    It would be interesting if the earth was flat… But even photos using an old kodak from within the cockpit of the SR-71 looking out the side (which is not a fish eye window) does show a slight curvature to the earth. So please do not use the whole fish eye lens argument either. Otherwise, the very same Kodak would take pictures of the ocean horizon showing a curvature, and they don’t because the elevation is not high enough to see the curvature of a sphere that is 24 thousand miles around. (24,901 to be exact)

    Like

    • HappyBirthday June 4, 2017 at 7:21 pm Reply

      Jason, it’s simple geometry right? So why don’t the flat earthers just draw it out and understand the graphic and the numbers? Is their cognitive dissonance so ingrained they can’t see the forest for the trees? Good work, sir.

      Like

  43. darcysmoke June 5, 2017 at 11:05 pm Reply

    Basically all the proof is with flat earth , self important cretins come here likely paid to professionally troll because any non psycho having a different opinion would have gone. This site has been targeted heavily by these cretins who are either thick as shit or dis-info agents.
    They come here demanding “proof “( and believe me , nothing will suffice as proof )
    Thinking we give a fuck what they think .
    The facts are presented very clearly , you either can see the reality or refuse too. .
    I do not need to name these individuals but you’ll notice them by their mutual masturbation , ( in each other’s camp etc)
    Ask them what proof they have for ANY star’s light being “light years away” .
    Also they might want to learn about Eric Dollard and his “Cosmic Induction Generator , creating a universe in a a bloody light bulb instantly !

    Like

    • Tom June 6, 2017 at 2:10 am Reply

      RE: “Ask them what proof they have for ANY star’s light being “light years away” ”

      I’d suggest you research redshift, perhaps thoroughly, if you’re interested in answers.

      Like

      • jwlpeace June 6, 2017 at 3:12 pm

        Tom, you’re either a shill or really ignorant to FE theory and facts. The “redshift” is NASA B.s. NASA is b.s. and yet you continue on and on siting NASA and their fake research and made up helio lies. Enough

        Like

  44. Mike June 6, 2017 at 3:56 pm Reply

    NASA – set up in 1958. Red shift first observed by Hippolyte Fizeau in 1848. Where is the b.s. coming from jwlpeace?

    Like

    • jwlpeace June 6, 2017 at 4:22 pm Reply

      coming from you and Tom fakeemail. your back again stirring b.s. read my post on why the “red shift” on the Hubble telescope is pure fantasy made up in the minds of NASA and sold to the sheeple as reality. If you cite NASA as source, or if NASA promotes “red shift” to record a tiny RF going quad TRILLIONS of miles up and back to determine size, shape, speed, orbit, make up of planet, blah, blah, blah, you are on the wrong site, my friend and need to go away. this info is for open minded free thinkers, not spouting trained helioheads who cannot think for themselves. Do you even know how far a Quadtrillion miles is? and a radio beam can detect “redshift” ha ha ha
      https://aplanetruth.info/?s=hubble&submit=Search
      Btw, where is are real photo of Earth?

      Like

      • Mike June 7, 2017 at 7:10 am

        jwlpeace – nothing in any of the matters depends upon NASA! The shape of the Earth, the heliocentric model versus the geocentric model, the expansion of the universe, distances to stars and galaxies, were all established well before the formation of NASA, or even its predecessor organisations!

        It amuses me how self-obsessed you Americans are. Science is done by the rest of the world too, even space exploration! Even if you could show that all that NASA does is fake (which you can’t – selective quotes and general ignorance don’t count as evidence), the Earth is STILL a globe, the Sun is still 93 million miles away and FE is still a fraud!

        Like

      • Tom June 7, 2017 at 11:40 am

        jwlpeace,

        Fake-email – how do you determine that? I’ve got 77 emails from this site via the checkbox for replies.

        Like

      • Mike June 7, 2017 at 11:43 am

        Tom, he means me. jwlpeace has revealed email addresses in the past, so I don’t trust him with a real email address.

        Like

      • 94michaelc June 13, 2017 at 4:37 pm

        I would be interested to know what possible motive NASA has to spread BS about GE.

        Can somebody therefore explain what NASA and all the other space agencies in the world have to gain from persuading us that the earth is round if it isn’t?

        Can somebody then explain why the overwhelming evidence from all astronomical and astrophysical experiments since Copernicus point consclusively to Earth being a globe? Was the conspiracy deep rooted in science for over 500 years? If so why? What could be the motive there?

        Like

  45. Nicklas Strand June 22, 2017 at 2:44 pm Reply

    The sun desending in the horizon could be that it is so far away from your sight it looks like a sundown. As for the ship thats desending in the ocian if you zoom in at it after it didsapiers in the horizon you can se its still there and not going down

    Like

    • HappyBirthday June 24, 2017 at 7:25 pm Reply

      Nicklas. But you will not be able to see the ship forever. And that’s because it goes over the curve and disappears. Simple as that.

      Like

    • Tom June 25, 2017 at 4:32 am Reply

      Nicklas, “could be . . . looks like a sundown” – how far away would that be then?

      Is there a distance from the sun where the light is no longer visible?

      What happens to affect the visibility?

      Like

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