Start Here

~ Comments, submissions and constructive critiques all welcome as long as it is civil. 

This site asks many more questions than it answers. Common sense and our own eyes tell our brains that the Sun and Moon move across our horizons each and every day and that the Earth is a plane, as seen from standing on any beach in the world and looking out over the ocean as well as from an airplane.

Common Sense and reason tell us the Earth is stationary and not rotating on her axis at and incredible 1,000 mph as well as orbiting around the Sun at some 1,000 mp/second traveling some 533 million miles each and every year while our Solar System is then traveling around the Milky Way at over 500,000 mph, as science claims it is.

Why would “they” perpetuate such a massive lie for so long?

Literally to keep our individual powers in check in that we are the center of the universe and all have the Kingdom of God within.

As Above, So Below.

200 Proofs Earth NOT a Globe


The Flammarion (1888). The image depicts a man crawling under the edge of the sky, depicted as if it were a solid hemisphere and plane earth, to look at the mysterious Empyrean beyond. The caption translates to “A medieval missionary tells that he has found the point where heaven and Earth meet…”

Since the end of the Dark Ages and the beginning of the Scientific Revolution, around the mid-1500’s, the world has been told, and believed, the Earth to be a globe.

The spheroid called Earth, spinning in a complete circle every 24 hours on it’s tilted access traveling at some 1,000 mph while yearly circumnavigating the Sun in one year traveling an additional 68,000 mph, or 1,000 mile per/second.

We are told by astronomy phycisists that our Sun Solar System travels around our Milky Way Galaxy at over 500,000 mph, while we are glued to Earth through gravity in a atmospheric cocoon that keeps all motion in sync with a rapidly spinning ball that we all live upon.

Yet the 500 year old story of a heliocentric solar system vs. the 3500 year story of a flat plane geocentric Earth began when the Vatican held all knowledge and book publishing just began so the masses could educate themselves in the 15th and 16th centuries.

From Copernicus to Galileo to Newton to Kepler, all validated “proven” science came from the Royal Society of London.

Starting with the Industrial Devolution , at the beginning of the 20th century, all school text books and teacher accreditation’s were founded and funded by Robber Baron’s, Rockefeller, JP Morgan, Ford et. al (Source)

After WWII, with the critical assistance of the Vatican “ratline” passports, the United States brought Nazi Rocketeer “Wunderkind”, Werhner Von Braun, into the country through Operation Paperclip.

Von Braun ran NASA’s Saturn rocket program for 25 years.  All feeds that came from the Moon on the alleged first Man on the Moon transmission came from one feed at NASA where all TV broadcasters had to copy from.

Since the 1960’s, when we entered the “space race” against our alleged arch enemy, Russia, during the cold war, NASA has provided us the narrative of our physical Earth, with every single picture and every single story, about what we have learned from the Cosmos through telescopes and space exploration.

“Maintain a lie or secret for one generation and the next generartion becomes easy pickings, particularly if the lie is echoed in school textbooks, TV cartoons, The History and Discovery Channels. Confuse one generation and the next will happily ingest the media gruel prepared for them.”     ~ Elana Freeland

Since the 1800’s, very few have challenged the Heliocentric theory because it is “settled science”.

Until now.

Our most basic cultural identities, of a global earth traveling around a central star, traveling around a galaxy amongst billions and billions of other galaxies, too far away to fathom, with their own planets and solar systems in the universe, is accepted common knowledge to all.

Yet, If one simply observes for themselves, without prejudice or belief, he/she would see a Sun and Moon traveling across the sky each day along a prescribed path from East to West.

We see the size of the Sun and Moon being relatively the same.

We feel no motion of an Earth traveling at 1,000 mph each and every day around a Sun traveling at 1,000 miles/second and over 500,000 mph around the Milky Way galaxy.

And no matter how high in a plane we are, we never see the curvature of the Earth, only a flat, level plane.

Only from NASA and Google Earth do we see any curvature, yet simple physics tells us we should.

The ancients called it a “Sunrise” and “Sunset” and we use that same language today, though we are told that these terms are incorrect in basic astronomical physics. No English teacher of proper usage of grammar, or any physicist, ever corrects this erroneous description of our “settled” knowledge as to the physics of a heliocentric Earth.

For over 3500 years many cultures including the ancient Summerians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Vedic Indians, Chinese and original Native Americans believed the earth to the center of all things in the Universe.

Additionally, the Bible is filled with references of a flat earth and firmament above in a closed system.

Once a generation is indoctrinated to a way of thinking, it is very easy for following generations to admit as fact what was once considered nonsensical.

If long term powers that be wanted to control world knowledge, to make the every man, women and child think and feel insignificant, and not hold the thought of a “Kingdom of God Within”, you would tell him he is only a very, very, very small part of a much bigger whole that he cannot possible comprehend or understand.

As Above, So Below

Alice goes down the rabbit hole.

This blog is an attempt to bring to those open-minded enough material to consider the possibility that we have been brainwashed completely and successfully for some 500 years!

The site is explore, question, inform and solve hidden truths about whether we are a plane or a planet, whether the Moon and Sun move across our skies as it appears, or that what we see is not really what is happening “out there” but we hold our own Sun, Moon and stars within each of us.

So let’s go chase some rabbits down the hole with open minds and insatiable curiosity for truth and higher consciousness …..

130 thoughts on “Start Here

  1. HappyBirthday November 27, 2016 at 9:30 pm Reply

    What do you think about this site with live coverage of the earth from very high up?


    • BurntToast December 24, 2016 at 6:49 pm Reply

      HB – that is a wonderful site; thanks for sharing this link. I’m going to have to check back from time-to-time for different portions of earth as the orbit shifts.


  2. watsun Atkinsun December 12, 2016 at 4:17 pm Reply

    Jamie Lee,
    Forgive me, for I could not find an email link to send you a formal letter, so I’m going to include it here. I’ve been following your work since the spring of 2015 and consider your FE videos and your amazing website some of the best material out there by far. I have been deeply entrenched in the FE conversation since first discovering this paradigm shattering narrative, and have been involved in the truth movement for about 8 intense years now. I just listened to your two interviews on the Jesuits and the FE awakening via the astounding show Sage of Quay (Mike Williams rules!) and they are both by far some of the best documents of the season that I’ve been sharing with everyone. I was thrilled to hear that you are writing a book that will be published very soon, and I urgently wanted to offer you my artistic contributions. I am a life time artist and have done a number of FE inspired art work that I would like to offer to be included in your book. If you recall from last summer via the IFERS forum, I was the elusive artist that designed and gifted to Eric and IFERS the United Nations inspired New FE Map logo that Eric has available as Tshirts, etc. Also I would like to offer any art work ideas that you may need illustrations for to include in this book and future projects – diagrams, maps, memes, text, etc. I would be honored to work with you and offer my artistic talents pro-bono for this crushingly important and pressing book that you are getting ready to launch. Please look at my website in the Art Gallery and Video Gallery links and you will be able to see the art work that I have done already. I have also uploaded a video that can be viewed on the site or can be seen on my youtube channel under “Watsun Atkinsun – Flat Earth Art’. to illustrate my conviction as a kindred spirit, i have been interviewed this year on FreemanTV, Good Vibrations, and the Secrets of Saturn podcast shows. If you are interested please contact via email ASAP and I can send you large files of at least a half dozen art files of interest, and can get busy on any and all drawing ideas you need for the book before it is finalized. Again, I am offering this all for free, for the love of truth, of wisdom, and freedom, and for the spiritual, political, and philosophical resistance that we are fearlessly apart of. I hope I’m not to late to to contribute to this exciting project.

    Sincerely, Watsun
    Portland, Maine
    Primal Plane

    P.S. Any other Truth seekers who resonate with this letter and the FE Revolution at large, send me an email and we can connect and converse.


    • madmanwbluebox December 12, 2016 at 7:16 pm Reply

      in order to have a flat earth “idea” it must 1) be able to stand on its own merits 2) be a viable model in accordance with the laws of physics, math, thermodynamics, astronomy, fluid mechanics etc to name a few 2a) alternatively you must present contrary viable laws of physics etc, none of these 3 things have ever been put forward by any flat earther since it’s inception. this is why people laugh at you all. the movement of the FE sun defies laws of motion and conservation of energy, 2 laws that have never been wrong and 2 laws that everything we know functions in accordance with


      • BurntToast December 13, 2016 at 5:23 am

        There is also a need for the ability to support predictions that follow from the idea.

        From what I see and read of an FE model, it is possible that the sun’s movement in the sky is from chariots carrying the sun in its described path (which I guess is better than no mechanism at all).


  3. Francesca December 17, 2016 at 3:21 am Reply

    I’m trying to find and conventions of gatherings in my area, but having trouble finding any. I live near Boston. Would love to get involved. Can anyone point me in the right direction?


    • madmanwbluebox December 17, 2016 at 4:59 pm Reply

      there’s an asylum for the insane I’m sure in the Boston area I would look for flat earth believers there first


    • Justin Gargano (@acrinym) March 26, 2017 at 1:14 am Reply A conference in Raleigh NC, Nov 9-10


  4. ansel61 December 23, 2016 at 5:34 pm Reply

    I have to agree with those who think the FE hypothesis is flawed. It’s an interesting idea and a great exercise in critical thinking proving it wrong but it’s not difficult to do so. Many reading the FE arguments will have enough knowledge to see the many FE problems and for those points that leave you scratching your head just google the issue and you’ll find there is always an explanation. Of course, this won’t have any impact on true flat earthers who will just say you’ve been brainwashed by science and scientists but this accusation is now wearing thin to say the least.

    The publisher of this website, from what I can see, is a Christian. I have the greatest respect for Christianity but it’s faith-based rather than evidence-based (unless you accept the bible as “proof”). It’s my opinion that the publisher is approaching the flat earth hypothesis in the same faith-based manner. I hope this doesn’t come across as anti-Christian as that’s definitely not the point. If I could manage the leap of faith then I’d be a Christian too. Sometimes I wish I could but it’s just not for me. Best wishes and a Merry Christmas to everyone.


    • HappyBirthday December 24, 2016 at 7:06 pm Reply

      Ansel61, I appreciate your thoughtful feedback. I too have found holes in the flat earth arguments. But I am baffled by the growing number of FE videos and articles by seemingly educated people.
      How do you explain this?
      Merry Christmas to you too!


      • madmanwbluebox December 24, 2016 at 7:27 pm

        I have yet to see a single YouTube, IG, tweeter about believing in Flat earth by anyone with an education. while it’s claimed that professional pilots or military pilots claim it’s flat I’ve never seen one that wasn’t “anonymous”. they fly “nautical miles” btw (research nautical miles). e.g. so called FE scientist Brian Mullen? he couldn’t even do a simple F=MxA calculation correctly. ditto for youtuber “Doctor Zak”. they make basic fundamental mistakes. it’s literally the belief of scientific illiterate people who have little common sense and are incapable of logical thinking


  5. ansel61 December 25, 2016 at 9:44 am Reply

    That might well be true but I think we have to concentrate on the argument and not who’s making it. You don’t neccessarily need a scientific education to be an original thinker. Give everyone a fair hearing but don’t let them away with anything.


    • madmanwbluebox February 8, 2017 at 6:55 pm Reply

      there is no argument to make though, the FE model is self debunking, 1/2 earth is daylight, 1/2 is nightfall no matter where you place the FE sun (either tropic circle) the distance to the alleged night time 1/2 is closer to the FE sun than distance to daylight 1/2 portion. now let’s try to find the southern pole star, depending on which continent your in, looking SOUTH is 3 different directions, there is no south direction (which is why FE canon is compasses are fake) now any location south of tropic capricorn sees the sun rise and set in the north, contrary to what is observed. now look at moon, if it was 3000 miles high over either tropic people 6000 miles apart on same latitude would see different 1/2, people along the longitude would see different view from people on same latitude, again the model debunks itself, without even getting into how it defies every law of physics, math, thermodynamics etc


  6. Tony February 8, 2017 at 4:56 am Reply

    So everybody’s in on it?? Even people that don’t know their in on it? Maybe your in it and know it, or maybe your in on it and don’t know it… Either way, your in on it… how much can I donate??


  7. doug February 9, 2017 at 12:50 am Reply

    i lost you when you when you said self debunking. the real reason flat earth is wrong–people do and have flown over the south pole–although the last time i was at 32,000 ft i could not see a curvature of the earth,and i did look. now why is that?


    • Rob February 18, 2017 at 11:24 pm Reply

      I have flown down at the South Pole too. You can’t see the curvature simply because you are not high enough. The aspect ratio is way too far apart. Even at low earth orbit (200km) it is slight. When you move further away it becomes more apparent as you see the sphere.


    • madmanwbluebox February 20, 2017 at 11:36 pm Reply

      don’t know why you lost me when I stated the FE model is self debunking? in order to introduce an alternative model, before getting into water and curvature and other unintelligent questions, you must first establish if a flat earth is plausible based on present day science laws. the short answer is no, a flat earth model defies laws of science in addition ro not even representing what is presently observable evidence. you could state well the laws of science are wrong and I would entertain that notion IF planes didn’t fly, or if ships got lost navigating nautical miles, or if electronics didnt work correctly or if any other millions of things that depend on science to work didn’t work. but since everything works correctly I’m 100% sure the laws of science are correct. so before getting into details like seeing a curve etc you 1st must prove an alternative model is viable, and FE fails to do that.


      • Hans February 24, 2017 at 9:35 am

        I am glad that someone invests his time to respond to the FE model nonsense.
        I would like to add one remark:
        I assume that FE model believers use smartphones or other navigation equipment when commuting or travelling by car. This GPS equipment works very precise, but only, because the electronics on board the GPS satellites take into account both (!) einstein special theory of relativity and einstein general theory of relativity, in order to adjust the clocks on board the satellites. If one would ignore these theories the position on the ground would be shown with an error of several miles. But the theorie of relativity is based on current science laws, all in contradicition to FE models or non rotating globe stories.
        By the way, all GPS satellites are launched by rockets, which use the ground speed of the rotating earth to safe fuel. There are no rockets launched westwards…..


      • jwlpeace February 24, 2017 at 3:08 pm

        because…the government told you so…that is what you base your evidence of proof….have more Kool-aid and please do not do any research for yourself, it is a waste of your time….time to move away from do not belong. thanx, the Management.


      • madmanwbluebox February 24, 2017 at 3:48 pm

        obviously management missed the whole point of the comment lmao, aside from anyone with a technical degree does a lot of their own research in laboratories not their mom’s basement or FE YouTube, research? every building, bridge, plane, car, Internet, cellphone, navigation tool, TV, works using the “globe” model science, maxwells equations, gravity constant, Einstein’s relativity, ships and planes navigate using “nautical miles” which accounts for earth’s curvature, they would all get lost if earth was flat, electricity wouldn’t work if earth was flat (research maxwells equations) buildings and bridges would collapse if earth was flat, (e.g. gravity constant wasn’t accurate) electronic devices wouldn’t work, how stupid do you have to be that you cant comprehend the science that proves a FE is not viable is the exact same science that everything on the globe assumes is correct and functions correctly. FE is a cult, nothing more.


  8. HappyBirthday February 24, 2017 at 3:58 pm Reply

    Can anyone who has a firm scientific grasp of flat earth theory explain the new findings? The new dwarf star and the five new planets orbiting it. It’s 39 light years away. It makes no sense to find these planets that must be globes circling a star when there is a claim that our planet is a plane. Is this just fake news?


    • Chikwako March 17, 2017 at 11:00 pm Reply

      Think about this: no proof as to how the heck they found these planets, no photo (or equivalent) of the system. Think about the distance in miles and the show me the instruments they used to find all 7 (not 5) planets. There are no telescopes in existence that can see that far!!! Very simple!!!

      Don’t just take it as true because NASA said it. After the moon landing fiasco I don’t trust anything NASA has to say.


      • Tom March 18, 2017 at 8:28 pm


        Interesting remarks; I hope you don’t mind if I decipher them to better understand what you are really trying to say. 🙂

        * no proof as to how the heck they found these planets
        –> I haven’t looked for, examined, or tried to understand the evidence for these new planets.

        * no photo (or equivalent) of the system
        –> I haven’t looked for, examined, or tried to understand the visual evidence of the system.

        * Think about the distance in miles
        –> I haven’t looked for, examined, or tried to understand the evidence for the distances described or used for the system.

        * show me the instruments they used to find all 7 (not 5) planets
        –> I haven’t looked for, examined, or tried to understand the evidence about instruments used for objects in the system.

        * There are no telescopes in existence that can see that far!!!
        –> I haven’t looked for, examined, or tried to understand the evidence about telescopes capable of viewing the system.

        * Very simple!!!
        –> I don’t look for, examine, or try to understand any evidence about the things I make personal claims about that I pass off as factual.

        * Don’t just take it as true because NASA said it.
        –> Don’t just take it as true because I said it.

        * After the moon landing fiasco I don’t trust anything NASA has to say.
        –> After the empty claims I’ve made without any evidence, don’t trust anything I have to say.

        Please feel free to refute this interpretation, and offer evidence used to support your remarks. I’d be happy to acknowledge any mistakes I’ve made.


  9. madmanwbluebox February 24, 2017 at 5:19 pm Reply

    yes according to classic FE model it’s fake news, all planets are fake all stars are fake, telescopes are fake, astronomy is fake, nuclear fusion and fission and radiation are fake. they’re fake basically because all of the above easily debunks the flat earth model. you will never see a FE model try to account for the accurate locations of mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter orbiting the sun as its speeding 1000 mph (without a sonic boom) 3000 miles over a flat earth, because the planets would otherwise always be visible and never transit the sun or go retrograde, likewise the FE sun cannot be a nuclear fusion reactor giving off deadly gamma rays and x-rays only 3000 miles above earth because we’d all be dead already. so believers of a FE model claim all of the above are part of the NASA conspiracy to hide God from everyone. and you wonder why people laugh at these imbeciles?

    Liked by 1 person

  10. HappyBirthday February 24, 2017 at 6:20 pm Reply

    I’ve been wondering how the universe can really operate with a flat earth. I have watched and studied numerous FE videos and read many, many of the comments. Unfortunately, I am not a scientist but I am a truth seeker. I wonder if this site is an attempt to discredit rigorous scientific research. We do live in an age of increasing anti intellectualism. But why would anybody go to such lengths to create all those flat earth videos and articles? What’s really behind this? Call me baffled.


  11. madmanwbluebox February 24, 2017 at 7:00 pm Reply

    I have 3 hypothesis, 1) the CIA resurrected this stupid cult to distract and waste time and discredit truth seekers, if you go on any legit truth seeker account and mention FE they chase you off
    2) the world will always have imbeciles who don’t research, or who cannot comprehend basic science and math postulates so FE is easier to believe or 3) religious fanatics / Bible literalist who believe a globe makes God a liar


  12. HappyBirthday February 24, 2017 at 7:21 pm Reply

    Those are some good points. I tend to agree with you. I have also witnessed people on this site who support the globe theory who are asked to stop commenting. Then all of a sudden, they’re nowhere to be found. All their past comments are deleted. Wow so much for a free and intelligent discussion. But then the same thing happens on the other side, as you pointed out. I can see how these sites are set up to provide distraction of the real issues. Or do you think that it’s possible that the CIA brought back flat earth theory to see how gullible people are? Ha! That’s a good one!


  13. madmanwbluebox February 24, 2017 at 8:59 pm Reply

    well look at the consequences, you almost never see professional engineers, architects, scientist posting opposing views on any 9-11 conspiracy pages, YouTube, IG, Twitter. but you find them posting contrary scientific evidence on every FE page. when the focus is redirected to something as stupid as Flat Earth, the social media awareness is misproportionally taken away from more valid endeavors. for example, the gunman in Dallas who shot the cops was executed without trial or without being formally charged by a Drone strike. since when are American citizens just executed by Drone? and it’s happened before in Iraq, or Afghanistan, but people are too busy telling me water seeks it’s level and asking where’s the curve to bother to address our Constitutional rights being infringed upon. at end of day it doesn’t matter if the earth is a globe, you ain’t going to the moon anytime soon, go worry about real possible conspiracies


  14. HappyBirthday February 24, 2017 at 9:46 pm Reply

    Insightful reply. I believe you’re on to something very important. Now watch the administrator of this site tell you that you’re just a paid govt shill and ask you to move on. I’ve seen it before.
    So, yeah, there are many more important things to be concerned about. Like today the White House denied several top news organizations entry to the Daily briefing. Talk about important! It’s the start of a dictatorship.


  15. HappyBirthday March 18, 2017 at 9:01 pm Reply

    Tom. My point exactly.
    So why was I doing their homework for them? I have to stop that bad habit


  16. madmanwbluebox March 18, 2017 at 11:43 pm Reply

    they found planets using telescopes hundreds of years ago, how stupid are you? go buy a telescope or join astronomy club


  17. Rick Rogers March 22, 2017 at 12:27 am Reply

    Very interesting antarctic pheonomena on this site. Especially the part where whales can communicate over 1000 km:


  18. Arnold March 23, 2017 at 9:39 am Reply

    have ever considered to combine flat and round earth. Picture a much much larger planet and flat earth map on one end, the result of electric scaring as in Wallace Thornhil Talbot or Tom Finlay’s electric universe. View our sun and the black sun on the other side as a anode and cathode setup ?


  19. madmanwbluebox March 23, 2017 at 4:26 pm Reply

    why don’t we just picture a place like Pepperland where all things are possible lol what is with this “picture a place” you do experiments, tests, observations they indicate it’s globe orbiting a sun in a galaxy. end of story. there’s nothing else to debate unless you got contrary scientific evidence, not fake YouTube videos and doctored photos. the flat earth has to stand on its own merits you can’t prove it with photos or trying to debunk globe model. you could find 1000 flat places and earth would still be a globe (like finding dimples on a golf ball) FE model must conform to science principles and laws, but it doesn’t it violates just about every science law, from conservation of energy to motion, to inertia, to thermodynamics, to magnetism and electricity


  20. HappyBirthday March 26, 2017 at 5:08 am Reply

    The conference in Raleigh in November looks very interesting!
    Info here


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