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Not only does the Bible, when speaking of the earth, describe a flat stationary creation. It’s (The Bible) silence, when the Bible speaks of the creation account about God’s creation in Genesis chapter 1, not a single mention of the creation of a universe or planets. That is point is also echoed a few times in other areas of the Bible.
Philippians 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
Paul list (like Genesis 1) God’s creation and again only heaven and earth
1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.
1 Corinthians 15;40 clearly states that the sun is not a star and stars are not suns and again no mention of planets.
Have you ever noticed how the Copernican influenced Bible expositors (Matthew Henry, Matthew Poole, Jamieson Fausset & Brown, Halley’s et al) have fumbled over their ‘explanations’ on the “fourth day”?
I believe that the stars are above the transparent and solid firmament; in the second or third heaven, and that we actually see them in “real time”, but more than this, these are “the watchers”; that is, they are the “heavenly host”, the angels!
To bad to many Christians are acting (toward the flat earth) like the Hebrews when they gave a report about the promised land to Moses. Instead of having (toward God and His word) the attitude of Caleb and having faith in God, that with faith, God can accomplish great things.
Numbers 13:30 Then Caleb silenced the people before Moses and said, “We should go up and take possession of the land, for we can certainly do it.”
If the Christian community would embrace the flat earth, the walls (lies) of science would come falling down.
The creationist will never defeat the evolutionist, without also believing / accepting the full teaching of The Bible and that full teaching is, that God’s creation is a flat stationary earth. With heaven 1st, 2nd and 3rd above and no outer space as stated by science.
As for angels being stars. I do not get that impression from the Bible verses like Job 38
4 “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding.
5 Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it?
6 To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars sang together,And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Seems like morning stars are different than the sons of God but i also believe morning stars and angels, are different that the created stars in Genesis 1.
Certainly I agree, if believers would ONLY be influenced by the Creator (who WAS there!) rather than by the wild theorizing’s of men who were not yet born; how different things would be? But, as a historic pre-millennial believer (not a Dispensationalist) I KNOW that things will only get worse for Christendom until the Lord Jesus destroys the “man of sin” by “the brightness of His coming” 2 Thessalonians 2.8.
It is important however, to remember that the period of time when Copernicus’s theory was taking hold, the world was in near total darkness (medieval/dark ages) the Reformation was/is a mighty move of God, which some 500 years ago STARTED to shine a bright light into the darkness of Romanism; remember the popes used to burn the Bibles! The Reformation IS an on-going work, not a finished one! Have you read what Luther said of Copernicus?
I can’t quite see how the verses you quote from Job 38 have any bearing whatsoever upon my ‘theory’; for please remember that the Bible doesn’t say that the stars were created on the fourth day, does it? it only says that “He made the stars also” Genesis 1.16.
Is the world any more knowledgeable today about the stars than your namesake Jane Taylor was? (early 19th century British nursery rhyme writer). What did she say?
“Twinkle twinkle little star, how I wonder what you are!”
BTW, I did write an e book “Antarctica Does it End? Hast thou comprehended the breadth of the earth? Declare if thou knowest it all.” (Job 38.18!)
May we all grow in grace and truth.
I meant to reply to your post sorry,
Verses i see that speak to this (about the earth originally being satan’s domain) is in Ezekiel 28 here is
Ezekiel 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
Well that verse is just one of a few and not trying to make post to long. I believe that in Genesis 1:1 is the original creation of heaven and earth (where i believe that Job 38 is speaking about) and between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 is where satan sinned and because of satan’s sin God judged and also destroyed or at least covered the created earth in Genesis 1:1 in water or frozen water (ice). And actually what is seen in Genesis 1:2 and beyond is God restoring and preparing the earth now for human occupation, taking away the earth from satan and giving it to humans. That is why i believe satan tried to take back the earth from Adam ( and humanity) in the garden.
It would appear that you subscribe to the so-called “gap-theory”; that there are aeons between the first two verses of Genesis?
No! the earth was not “waste” but it was yet “without form”, for God had not yet finished His work of creating! The Bible knows NOTHING of an “original creation” as you call it.
As for Ezekiel 28.13; certainly, that was the description of the one who became the great adversary, Satan. He was created “perfect” (v 15) just like the “sons of God” and also our first parents.
But HOW LONG was Satan “perfect” for, before “iniquity was found in thee”? and how long were our perfect unfallen parents in the garden for, 24 hours even? and WHAT day was Satan created, remember, he “wast upon the holy mountain of God”. The Saviour “beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven”, (Luke 10.18) when EXACTLY did that happen?
It was my fellow countryman Thomas Chalmers that popularized the “gap-theory” and his students (including Horatius Bonar) who further promulgated it. This was done to acquiesce the “theory of evolution” (Darwinism) which was rapidly gaining popularity, not that it did any good!
Many good men have believed this gap-theory, but that is all it is, a theory. Let us not go beyond what is written?
(The capitalisations are for emphasis only-not shouting!)
BTW, I did a book review some years back on a little known book “Earth’s Morning or Thoughts on Genesis” by H.Bonar that you might be interested in reading. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1146734522/ref=pdp_new_dp_review
I believe as it is stated in Genesis 1:1 that in the beginning God created heaven and earth. I do not believe, as many have tried to do place a large amount of time in between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. I simply do not know but i do believe God created the heaven and earth in Genesis 1:1.
Many who believe in dinosaurs have tried to place a time amount between Genesis 1:1 and 1;2 for that. But that is something I do not hold to or believe, I do not believe in dinosaurs (scientific lie version) if there were such a thing as a dinosaur, they could have been connected to the nephilim and the flood as Genesis 6 11,12 states
Genesis 6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 So God looked upon the earth, and indeed it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.
There is simply just a lot i do not know and the Bible does not give a full picture kind of like the description of the earth. I know the earth is flat but i simply do not know the exact shape/ design of God’s creation (square / circular) and i really do not know that anyone does. That is one reason i believe besides hiding God and His creation scientist have created this man made world universe, they can make themselves look important etc.. because they simply can not understand God’s creation and how it works fully. So they create a world they can explain and control etc..
I keep myself open to learning and do not close off any new ideas, that is why i did not struggle with when i learned of, that the Bible describes a flat stationary earth. That was not a problem for me and actually i welcomed the discovery because i always had questions that i never found satisfactory answers too.
That is why i see groups like these creation groups, will never accept the flat earth they have too much at stake to admit their mis teachings and believing man over the word of God
Example i would always ask, where i never read in the Bible, of the sun being described as a star or that stars were thought of as sun’s. The moon never look far away etc..
But as for what you call the gap theory i do not believe in that as described by most christian groups. For the placement of a large amount of time God is out side of time and i am not sure if a concept of time even existed then. but i do believe like Adam being created a full grown man with age (i am guessing 20-30) the earth was created possibly with some kind of, look of age attached to it.
But one more side note, why i do not see angels as being stars. Angels do eat as stated by
Psalms 78:24 Had rained down manna on them to eat, And given them of the bread of heaven.
25 Men ate angels’ food; He sent them food to the full.
I posted yesterday, but the comment got lost in cyberspace, so to speak! (quite a long one on the angelic realm), but will try again within the next week, God willing.
Regarding the creation ministries, they stopped me from commenting!
These creation sites, i guess guide their Bible study and teachings by the dollar. They are to me very defensive and a puzzling group. I find people like these groups have too much invested in their stance to admit any miss teachings.
They (or atleast they say they do) believe the parting of the Red Sea as given in the Bible. But do not believe Joshua 10 and the stopping of the sun and moon for a day as given in the Bible. A confused theology at best.
I agree with much of what you assert, I will leave the Nephilim for another time!
There seems to be something of a tension (if I may describe it thus) between the “stars”/”morning stars” and the “sons of God” (angelic host); are these two groups one and the same? I don’t know, but I believe they are inextricably linked! (who would deny it?).There does, however, appear to be a definite distinction in Job 38.7; “When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?” But this requires further study (needless to say!). Psalm 19.1-4 speaks of the “voice” of God’s “handiwork” in the firmament/heavens; whether the stars we see in real time are the abodes of the unfallen angels I cannot say. It is however a possibility, for do not seemingly inanimate objects such as “mountains and the hills… break forth into singing, and all the trees of the field..clap their hands” Isaiah 55.12? and does not “the whole creation groan (a negative sound) and travail in pain…” Romans 8.22? (pls read the context).
“Look of age attached to it” this is but a perception, a subjective one, surely, for how can the finite understand the infinite? For “Is there anything too hard for the LORD?” Genesis 18.14/Jeremiah 32.27.
The Saviour also eat food after His ascension (Luke 24.42-43), angels also eat food in Genesis 18.8: Is it not written that God’s elect will be “as the angels of God in heaven” Matt 22.30?
With respect to your last couple of sentences above, as suggested; are the visible stars at night inanimate objects? Remember, angels (fallen/unfallen) have ONLY been around for some six days (2 Peter 3.8), these entities are not subject to time as the fallen human race is; for they already exist in eternity! We know that NASA’s images (and every other agency’s) images of the so-called galaxy/milky way (call it what you will) cannot be trusted, so what exactly are we looking at? What exactly are the stars doing when we cannot see them in daytime?
After reading much, the last day about angels from and in the Bible. I simply just do not know either way.
I just do not find much when speaking about stars and the Bible, coming from all christian commentaries.
They approach a star from the scientific lie about stars being suns and a gas ball and not a created light, so these christian commentaries are blinded by their inability to believe God’s full revelation and simply do not give any insight into the topic.
If they were to understand stars as lights in the sky, i would like to see thoughts on this and how that would affect their Bible commentaries.
But for me i guess that will have to wait till we are given more revelation as to God;s creation.
I find it very humbling; but also, strangely bizarre that the esteemed Bible commentators of the past never seemed to question the heliocentric theory. They sure were confounded trying to reconcile certain Bible verses with the Copernican theory, yet were apparently blinded by the seemingly ‘precise’ mathematics that seemed to ‘prove’ it?
Angelology/demonology is without doubt the most difficult branch of Bible theology, for we are dealing with entities that cannot be seen! The true believer, however believes what the Scripture of truth says, for we know that “the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.” 2 Corinthians 4.18.
We KNOW that the heliocentric theory necessitates its adherents to believe that the sun is some 93 million miles from us and is a gigantic ball of fire that is some one hundred times bigger than our ‘planet’, but where does the scale of size end; never? There is a ‘star’ UY Scuti which apparently makes our sun look like a flea on an elephants back! I ask; when will we ‘find’ a star that will similarly dwarf UY Scuti? and on it goes!
I believe that the heliocentric deception has been a major hindrance to our fully understanding the angelic host/stars. I am (when time permits!) studying, and have oftentimes come to the cusp of understanding, only to be derailed by what SEEM to be verses that oppose my views on the heavenly host, host of heaven, watchers, angels etc.
As believers, if we tenaciously cling to heliocentricism, how will we even BEGIN to understand some of these things under discussion? If, when we look up and see the stars believing they are gigantic balls of fire umpteen light years away from us, however do they “fall from heaven unto the earth” Revelation 9.1, Matthew 24.29?
As to your “shooting star”, indeed, what exactly are they? “An angel moving around?” I think you may well be right! I was at one time convinced that the “Tunguska Event” may have been Satan’s fall (but the time frame doesn’t SEEM to fit/but there again, time doesn’t constrain him!) or at least another fallen angel. It is important to remember that “Lucifer” is Satan, the “day star”, a ‘light’ bearer; it does make you wonder if these “shooting stars” are but glimpses of the unseen world. This would seem to fit in with the theory I have been advocating, that the stars above could well be the angelic host. The Bible also speaks of “fiery flying serpents”!
I will also add. This morning 6:00am (thursday 12th) i went to a building i own, in the town i live in, that i use a an art studio. After entering the building, i looked back out the large facade windows and caught a glimpse of what is known as a shooting star by the public.
I have never see one that look as close as this one was, I look at planes in the sky all the time being that they are around 4,5,6 miles high. This light/star was no way near that distance. This light looked no more that a mile away if that far, it was moving over (parallel with) and above where the river goes through our town which from my studio is only 200/300 yards away. I watched the light move until it just faded away
Now was that an angel moving around ? i do not know could be
That is something that i wish i could have been able to get a video of
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Before your comment about angels and stars, i had not done much study in that area and will now look into this more. thanks for the mention of this.
I do not know if stars are angels but i do know that they must be living beings. Judges 5:20 speaks of the stars fighting
Judges 5:20 They fought from the heavens; The stars from their courses fought against Sisera.
What a sad state the teaching is now in the church, I thought it was bad with all the liberal theology, but learning of the flat earth and how this is completely just dismissed. just sad
I came across this and how this pastor person (hamp) comes off just sad.